wiggin | 2009-12-21 11:48:00 |
I think all basic house cards are useful, they just have different strengths, and some are used more frequently than others. I will grade each card in 4 categories. Speed How good it is at dealing damage to the opponent. Cards with high speed, are cards that are good at getting the opponents life to 0, even if he is ahead or even in resources. For example, Insanian Berserker. Resource Balance What effect the creature has on who has the highest resources. Cards with good resource balance, are cards that are good at getting control of the game, and eventually winning, even if the opponent has a lot of life. For example, Elementals. Life gain and creatures are also types of resources. Board Presence The degree to which your creature will stay on the board, and kill the opposing ones, allowing you to get board advantage. Creatures with high stats have good board presence, for example Water Sprite. Synergy A bonus category, for cards that work especially well in specific situations. For example, Orc Chieftain if you have a Lightning Cloud down. Abbreviations gen = generator. local md = local mass destruction. I think foremost of Chain Lightning / Flame Wave, when I write this. global md = Global mass destruction. Acid rain, Stone Rain, Armageddon. Modified by wiggin on 2010-12-07 11:06:33 wiggin | 2009-12-21 11:48:14 |
Fire cards
Goblin Berserker
Speed: Medium
Resource Balance: Medium Board Presence: Medium Synergy: High This is a strong card if you can play around its drawback. In itself, it has very strong board presence with its 4/16, but you lose board presence around it. One risk is that the opponent plays a mana gen in a diagonal spot. So you have to be ready with a tough creature to deal with this. Another risk is that your board is filled up, and it starts dealing damage to your own creatures. If you avoid these two risks, its strong. The best creatures to use with it are Ice Golem and Turtle. Other creatures that can be used are Troll, Sea Sprite and similar. It works very well together with acid rain.
How to counter: Take advantage of the weakened neighbour slots, by playing weak board presence creatures there, such as mana gens or Elvish Healer. Go after his other creatures instead of this. Control 4, air 5.
Wall of Fire Speed: Low Resource Balance: High Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: Medium This card you generally want to use if the opponent has weak board presence, where he has a lot of small creatures you can hurt, and you are not afraid of losing the tempo. Since it is cheap and it conserves life by blocking, it will be a resource gain in those situations. Beware of playing it if the opponent has strong board presence already, with mid- or high-level creatures, since it can throw you further behind. Also has specific uses in endgame, to finish off opponents creatures, or deal extra damage by killing weak blockers. Beware of playing it in an empty slot, if the opponent might have Tower of Dampening or something similar, or if you have a master healer down.
How to counter: Mid or high level creatures. The impact will be too low.
Priest of Fire Speed: Low Resource Balance: Excellent Board Presence: Low Synergy: Low This is a weak guy who gives you mana. Play it in slower games, where you are holding back a little, but avoid it in faster moving games. Because it is weak, it should mostly be played across empty slots, or across creatures that will be finished soon. Playing it in the first turn is often a strong move, since it is guaranteed to earn itself back, plus the opponent has to put focus on killing it.
How to counter: Play a 4-attack creature in front of it, and the next turn play a chain/wave, or a Wall of Fire in two turns. Or kill it straight with a strong creature, and get board advantage.
Fire Drake Speed: High Resource Balance: Low Board Presence: Medium Synergy: Low This guy is very expensive. You can use it to finish mana generators fast, especially if you have something to help deal the extra damage. A marginal use is to finish off weak elementals, mind masters, etc, or Ice Golems. Otherwise he can be used for putting life pressure, when you already have board advantage, since his board presence is acceptable. But beware, his resource balance is very low, so there must be heavy pressure already. How to counter: Use your new mana advantage.
Orc Chieftain Speed: High Resource Balance: Low Board Presence: Medium Synergy: Excellent Banned combo: With Forest Sprite
Again, an expensive creature, so he should only be used in specific situations. There are the obvious cooperative situations with Hydra or Lightning Cloud. Otherwise it can be used to put life pressure early, with some tough smaller creatures such as Water Sprite, Ice Golem, Phantom Warrior, Mech 2, or high attack creatures. Itâs important that those creatures have low vulnerability to spells, since this card has high vulnerability.
How to counter: Kill it. He is weak.
Flame Wave Speed: High Resource Balance: High Board Presence: Excellent Synergy: Low This is my most frequently played fire card, although I know that Sealeta is not as fond of it as me. When the opponent has several lower-end creatures down, it will pay itself back in resources, in addition to giving you great board control. It's strongest in the beginning where it hits hard on the small creatures, but also later on 9 damage is usually not bad. Plan for when to use it, so that you just accurately finish off as many creatures as possible, which will make it have maximum impact. The only thing you should watch out for, is the opponent following it with Acid Rain.
How to counter: This is essential. The opponent has this card 50% of the time, and if not, he almost always has Chain Lightning. To keep some board presence you play some creatures that don't die, such as Troll, Ice Golem, Phantom Warrior, Water Sprite.
Minotaur Speed: High Resource Balance: Low
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: Excellent
This guy is Sealetas avatar, and with good reason. It is a fast card, that puts heavy pressure on the opponent. It is also an advanced card to use, and you have to be very aware of the opponents options. Its strongest when you have several creatures on the board, but that is also when it is most vulnerable to mass destruction, especially the rains. Also, it will be quickly taken down by a hard hitter, such as Troll or Turtle, so you better have something to show for it. It has great synergy with Earth 3 and 7. It's strong if you can get it down very early, when the opponent doesn't have so many options for how to deal with it.
How to counter: Stone Rain, Troll, Turtle, Inferno, Cannonade.
Bargul Speed: High Resource Balance: Low
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: Low "Water Sprite is for creature damage, Bargul is for player damage" (Erickiller) This creature is very expensive. There is a marginal use in killing weak creatures such as lightning cloud or Astral guard. But mostly you want to hit the opponent hard, and kill him before he can get advantage of your resource loss from playing this. Its preferable if you already have life pressure and some board control, so the opponent can not simply chump block it. Its extra useful with Natural Fury, Merfolk Overlord, Ancient Giant, and as Sealeta says "And fire8+air3 is a union fearful very." If the timing is right, the 4 damage can clear his blockers and make your creatures deal some extra damage. Like Minotaur, he is strong if you can get him out very early, since the opponent possibly wont have the options to deal with him yet. How to counter: Conserve your life cost-effectively with Ice Guard or Fairy Sage. Kill it with a heavy hitter such as Titan or Inferno with huge resource advantage. Inferno Speed: Medium
Resource Balance: High
Board Presence: Excellent
Synergy: Low This is for the mid to late game. Use it to finish a mid creature such as Minotaur, or to get an elemental down. It can give a huge resource advantage if the opponent has many creatures on the field. It's also useful to keep back if you see an Astral Guard or similar coming. How to Counter: Immune creatures. Try to encourage a game where the board is not filled. Be ready with global mass destruction right after. Use Witch or Weakness so he doesn't get it until its too late. Fire Elemental Speed: Medium
Resource Balance: High
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: High Super synergy with Merfolk Apostate. Also, as all elementals, with Nature Ritual and Divine Intervention. Like all elementals, it's strong in a longer game, where it has time to grow, and you get the advantage from the mana gain. The resource balance on all of them is high, so if the game doesn't look to be going fast toward the finish line, you should often plan in advance for at least one elemental to save up for. The Fire elemental is the least "elemental-like", in this respect, since it is both faster and weaker than the others. Compared to them, it is a little more suited to aggressive play, but less of a monster in the long run. Marginal uses are the rare opportunity to finish off a big creature, to finish a mana giver, and dealing damage to Phantom Warriors. When possible, a turn 2 Fire Elemental can be evil. How to counter: Heavy hit it before it grows too big. Water Sprite, Turtle, Inferno, Poisonous Cloud etc. "Mech 6 is an elemental hunter." Armageddon Speed: Excellent
Resource Balance: Medium
Board Presence: High
Synergy: High This is a versatile and very powerful card. First and foremost it is an excellent finisher, possibly the best in the game. It deals more immediate damage than even Lightning Bolt. On top of that, it might clear away some blockers, allowing your big creatures to deal additional damage. It can be used in a rushing strategy, where you plan for losing board advantage, and then clearing with this, leaving your opponent very low on life, without being too far behind on the board. It can be used as a poor man's Stone Rain, less effective, but putting more life pressure on the opponent. Since it is less cost effective than stone rain, you should only do this when the board is better suited for it, or when the damage to the opponent will be relevant. It has great synergy with Golems and Phantom Warrior, especially since they will deal immediate extra damage, if the Armageddon clears their blockers. It also has good synergy with big creatures that can survive it, especially Ancient Giant. Good synergy with Merfolk Apostate, obviously. Counters: Immune creatures. Keeping an eye on your life total. Master Healer. Weaken your opponents big creatures, so that he will empty his own board when he plays it. Archangel counter, if the timing is right. Dragon Speed: Low-High Resource Balance: Low-Excellent Board Presence: Medium-Excellent Synergy: Excellent The strength of this card is extremely variable, so much that I canât even give the aggregrate rating such as I do for the other cards. Itâs strengths: When you have mass destruction. Air 8, Holy4 and 6, Chaos 4, Mech 7 or strongest of all, Control 5. Or if you play sorcery. Another, rarer, option is to go for his life, using earth 6, air 3 or air 6. But if this is your only weapon, you will have low board presence at this point, so you must be quite confident in getting the kill. Itâs weaknesses: If you donât get any bonus from it, itâs weak. Often the direct damage bonus is useless. If the opponent has tornado, that can be a disastrous blow, since you lose both mana and tempo. If you donât have water 3, you must be sure what youâre doing, and not be too far behind when you finally get it down.
How to counter: Tornado.
Modified by wiggin on 2010-12-07 11:24:00 wiggin | 2009-12-21 11:48:17 |
Meditation Speed: Low Resource Balance: Excellent
Board Presence: Low
Synergy: Medium Banned with Stone Rain The main use of this card is when the game is stalled. If you are waiting on some destruction, or if the board is filled up. It will give you a nice resource boost while your opponent possibly can't do much worthwhile. A second use is the speed up important cards. This should be used carefully, since you are giving away board presence to your opponent. Still, sometimes its useful, especially with Tornado, or if you have scaling healing. How to counter: Take board advantage. Water Sprite
Speed: Medium
Resource Balance: Medium
Board Presence: Excellent
Synergy: Low
Very powerful board presence, but at a high cost. It should generally be used against creatures, not players. It's good to kill mana generators, to block elementals, or to play when you expect local mass destruction. Be more careful about your life if you play it, and don't play two of them unless you really know what you are doing.
How to counter: Wall of Lightning. Leave it unblocked, and play a life gen in another slot. Ice Guard.
Merfolk Apostate
Speed: Low Resource Balance: High
Board Presence: Low
Synergy: High
The upside of this card is that 3 water mana for 2 fire mana can sometimes be a good trade in itself, and you get a creature on top of it. The downside is that it is really weak, and cost you a lot of board presence. So if you use it, be careful that you have board presence under control, and don't fall permanently behind. Good to rush a Fire Elemental, especially if you can get it down early. Works great with Dragon, if your opponent doesn't have Tornado. In some setups, it also works for Armageddon, but beware that you empty all your water and fire, in return for some damage. Useful as a low investment play, if you know a big destruction spell is coming.
How to counter: Make a plan against possible Dragon rush. Take board advantage.
Ice Golem
Speed: High
Resource Balance: Medium
Board Presence: High
Synergy: High
This is one of the stronger cards in the game, but it should be used very carefully. Use it when it's possible for your oppenent to play mass destruction, and difficult for him to kill Ice Golem fast. If you are playing it in an open slot, consider whether he could put a Troll, Energy Beast or similar in front of it. It's strong to use when you are already ahead in board control, since it will make it more difficult for him to catch up with destruction. Also, it has great synergy with Stone Rain or Armageddon, giving you immediate board control in the aftermath.
How to Counter: 6 attack creature in front of it, Lightning Cloud.
Merfolk Elder
Speed: Medium
Resource Balance: High
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: Medium
Another strong card, but playing it is a big decision, since it will use all your water mana. So you have to consider whether the water mana is better spent with other water cards. Also consider what the air mana gives you. A fast Lightning Cloud can be really strong. Saving up for Tornado can be good in a longer game. Titan is not particularly attractive to race for. As the other generators, it is strongest as the opening move, but can also be used later in the game, mostly to race for a Chain Lightning or Tornado.
How to counter: A 4-attack creature in front, and local sweep two turns later. Acid Rain. 6-attack creatures.
Ice Guard
Speed: Low Resource Balance: Excellent
Board Presence: Low
Synergy: Medium
One of the most powerful healing cards in the game. If the opponent is investing in a rush, it is almost always a solid play. It's often good to play it in an empty slot, and following by playing your next creatures in empty slots too. Works well with and against Water Sprites. Works well to buy you some time before a big destruction spell. Works well with Elephant.
How to counter: Shift from player damage to creature damage. If you deal low player damage while it is in play, it was mostly a waste of resources.
Turtle Speed: Medium
Resource Balance: Medium
Board Presence: Excellent
Synergy: Medium
Very tough card, almost invulnerable from other cards in its pricezone. The only danger is Stone Rain. 5 damage is not that high for 7 mana though, so you mostly prefer it to deal damage to opponents creatures. A great defence against medium destruction from your opponent, since they don't really hurt it. Works well against Minotaur, Lightning Cloud, Mindstealer, Steel Golem, etc. Very strong start together with Goblin Berserker. Works well together with creature healing.
How to counter: Leave it unblocked. Stone Rain. Block with Master Healer or Forest Sprite. Explosion.
Acid Rain
Speed: Low Resource Balance: Excellent
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: High
This is possibly the most dangerous card in the game, and is able to put you far ahead, right from the beginning. With the mana reducing effect, it's almost free to play, so if you can kill several creatures from your opponent as well, it's devastating. It is especially useful in the early game, where few creatures survive it. The best use is together with cards that survive it, such as Phantom Warrior, Lemure or Goblin Berserker, so that you get board advantage too. Very effective against chaos1 or 2 spam. Faerie Apprentice can be used if an extra 1 point of damage is essential.
How to Counter: Don't overcommit if your opponent might have this. Phantom Warrior, Ice Golem, Troll, Meditation.
Merfolk Overlord Speed: High
Resource Balance: Medium
Board Presence: High
Synergy: Medium
Works similar to a tougher version of Spectral Assassin. Use it to put your opponent in a life pin. Great Synergy with Ancient Giant and Lightning Cloud. Good with creatures that have high attack, such as Bargul, Spectral Assassin. If you consider playing him, plan in advance, so that you have three adjacent open slots.
How to counter: Watch your life total. Kill it with a heavy hitter, such as Titan.
Water Elemental
Speed: Low
Resource Balance: Excellent
Board Presence: Low
Synergy: Medium
At first look, it seems to be the strongest of the elementals, since the healing effect is the best effect. But there are two factors that make it less attractive. One, the other water cards are slightly stronger than the other cards in the other houses. And two, in the basic houses, there is no way to grow your water mana. In perspective, there are 2 ways to grow earth and air, and 3 ways to grow fire. If you need hardcore healing, water 6 is more effective. It is used as other elementals, but can be used in a fast-paced game, as a tough blocker which also gives you a life boost.
How to counter: Heavy hit it before it grows too big. Poisonous Cloud, Mech 6, Titan, etc.
Mind Master
Speed: Low Resource Balance: Excellent
Board Presence: Low
Synergy: High
This card is sort of a gamble. If you play it, the oppnent might either finish it off quickly and effectively, or ignore it and kills you. If he does neither, then you most probably win. The problem is that good players watch out for it, and prepare an option to deal with it, when they see your water mana grow high. Normally I would only advice saving up for it, if you think that the opponent will have trouble killing it. But there are some draws that make it more valuable. Especially Divine Intervention or Sacrifice, can allow you to rush it out, before the opponent has mana to effectively deal with it. Also works well with Ritual of Glory and Nature Ritual.
How to counter: Be ready with big mass destruction, tornado, or a fast hitting creature such as Giant, Mindstealer, Titan.
Astral Guard Speed: Low Resource Balance: Excellent
Board Presence: Low
Synergy: High
Like the Mind Master, this card is a gamble. Either the opponent kills it or you quickly, or he losses. As with Mind Master, but even more so, you need control of the board and your life, for this to be a possible play. Against an aggressive player or house, it is almost never viable. An advantage over Mind Master is that it has an effect right away, even if tornadoed immediately. Works well with Holy Guard, Magic Hamster and Nature Ritual.
How to counter: Be ready with big mass destruction, tornado, or a heavy hitting creature. Rush him, so he doesn't have time for it.
Modified by wiggin on 2010-12-07 14:08:01 wiggin | 2009-12-21 11:48:45 |
Fairie Apprentice Speed: Low
Resource Balance: Medium
Board Presence: Low
Synergy: Medium
As you can see on the ratings, I think this is one of the weakest cards in the basic houses. It's made of papier-mache. If you are to play it, you have to have a specific plan for how to use its effect, or it's a weak play. This can be killing a mana gen one turn earlier with a flame wave, boosting dark ritual or Call to Thunder, getting a Merfolk Elder with Acid Rain, getting the small spiders with inferno, etc.
How to counter: Dont play too many creatures with weak board presence. But that's something you shouldn't do anyway. Clear them with lmd.
Griffin
Speed: High
Resource Balance: Low
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: Low
This is an expensive card. Play it when you have some serious pressure on the opponent, and you think he will waste more on trying to heal, than you will on playing it. It can be used in empty slots to put pressure, or as a chump blocker with bonus damage in a fast moving game. How to counter: Any kind of healing. Call to Thunder Speed: Excellent
Resource Balance: Low
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: Low
This card is mostly used to put pressure on the opponent. Shoot down a weak creature, letting your creature hit the opponent, and deal a lot of damage. This can often be more dangerous than putting down more creatures, since you will be less vulnerable to mass destruction. A second use is to finish off important creatures. Compare it with Wall of Fire and you can see how expensive it is, so there must either be good pressure, or it's a highly important creature you get out. Can be used more freely to work towards killing creatures, if you know that your opponent doesn't have earth 2.
How to counter: Healing. You can think about not chump blocking with too weak creatures.
Fairie Sage
Speed: Low
Resource Balance: High
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: Medium
Fairie Sage has acceptable board presence, so you can catch up on that while you heal, which is essential. Good to block 9-attack creatures with. Usually not worth it unless your life is being pressured, and your earth mana is high.
How to counter:
Wall of Lightning
Speed: Medium
Resource Balance: Low
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: Low The ideal situation to use this, is when put across a creature that will be irrelevant by the time the wall dies. This can be if the game will finish before then, or if it will be cleared by mass destruction. Especially good as a stalling move, saving up for a strong armageddon. Good against tough creatures, that would be difficult to get down anyway, such as Turtle and Troll. Evil against Sea Sprite. Useful in the finish line game, for blocking the opponents largest threat. How to counter: Keep an eye on your life total. Lightning Bolt
Speed: Excellent
Resource Balance: Low
Board Presence: Low
Synergy: Low Obviously use it when you can kill our opponent. Also you can use it when you have good board control, and there is pressure on his life. He might have to waste time healing, and even though that is more effective, it will also delay his effort in blocking your creatures. If the opponent is not under hard life pressure yet, better to cast some creatures. Phoenix
Speed: Low
Resource Balance: Medium
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: Medium This is a card I rarely use. Very rarely it can be used without having or holding on to your firepower, but then it's crazily expensive. So the main use is to keep your firepower, and try to slowly fill the board with these. This is very problematic though, especially since you can't use your basic lmd. The opponent will use his mana advantage and overwhelm you with creatures. So in order for it to be playable, you need to have fullfilled some of the following. - You have some other creature destruction, such as Stone Rain or Wrath of God. - You have some effective, non-Fairie Sage healing. - The game has so far moved quite slowly, with your opponent holding back and not having threatening board presence, while you have saved up in fire and air. - You have Divine Intervention. - You have a good life reserve. Your situation should be as good as possible when you play it, since once you do, there is generally no looking back. How to counter: You now have mana advantage, and it's difficult for him to kill your creatures, but you are in a race against the clock. Play life-hitting creatures in the empty slots. Go for more creatures rather than creature destruction, unless it can help deal significant damage. Leave it unblocked, or block it with Wall of Lightning, Master Healer, Hydra, Spider. Chaos 1 or 2 in empty slots is very strong. Chain Lightning
Speed: Excellent
Resource Balance: Medium
Board Presence: High
Synergy: Low Used a lot like flame wave. Can also be used more aggressively, taking out less creatures, but clearing blockers, making your creatures deal player damage, in addition to the damage from this. How to counter: Keep some creatures in play that don't die from it, Troll, Immune creatures, etc. If you have Flame Wave or Inferno, you can be quite confident that your opponent has Chain Lightning, so you can watch out for it. If he starts with low air mana, you can take advantage of this, and play a mana generator or similar, which he can't destroy for a while. Also, if you keep a good life total, it will be somewhat expensive to use for your opponent. Lightning Cloud
Speed: Medium
Resource Balance: Medium
Board Presence: Excellent
Synergy: High You can view this as a creature that has 4 attack, and gets 4 extra for each creature the opponent has on the board. So you want to play it against a full board, in which case it can be crazy dangerous. It is vulnerable, with low toughness and low attack against the creature directly across it, so watch out for it. It's good to place it across a weak creature, so the opponent can't get it with a heavy hitter. Great synergy with Orc Chieftain, Holy Guard, Merfolk Overlord and Nature Ritual. Be careful about playing it if you think your opponent might be able to kill it immediately. Can be evil to rush out with Merfolk Elder, since it will eat up his small opening creatures. Note that it should always be played as far to the left as possible, to allow your creatures to deal bonus opponent damage if he kills their blocker. This includes saving a spot for him if you have him on your hand. How to Counter: Inferno, Stone Rain, Titan, Cannonade, Steam Tank, Spectral Mage, Armageddon., good blocker plus lmd, etc. You mostly want to focus on killing it asap. You can also take advantage of the knowledge that he almost certainly doesn't have Chain Lightning ot Tornado. Tornado Speed: Medium
Resource Balance: High
Board Presence: High
Synergy: Low Use it to take down opponents big creatures. Preferably immediately, and preferable those without come-into-play effects. This can give you both tempo and possibly mana advantage, which makes it very strong. How to counter: Avoid playing big creatures with no come-into-play effect. Air Elemental Speed: Low
Resource Balance: Excellent
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: Medium Typical, strong elemental. Good synergy with Merfolk Elder, Divine Intervention and nature ritual. Like all elementals it's strong in a longer game, where it has time to grow, and you get the advantage from the managain. The resource balance on all of them is very high, so if the gamedoesn't look to be going fast toward the finish line, you should oftenplan in advance for at least one elemental to save up for. A marginal use is as a mana battery for Fairie Sage, giving you constant healing. Titan Speed: Medium
Resource Balance: Medium
Board Presence: High
Synergy: Low A good target is aggressive but weak cards, such as Minotaur, Lightning Cloud, Ornithopter. Also cards that have high resource balance, eg elementals, water 11/12, Chaos Lord. But other targets are acceptable too. If it's not too many turns away, you can leave a mana gen be, and then kill it in one strike with the Titan. How to counter: Watch out for it. Place creatures your opponent would want to hit across his creatures. Modified by wiggin on 2011-01-05 09:32:53 wiggin | 2009-12-21 11:48:58 |
Elvish Healer Speed: Low
Resource Balance: High
Board Presence: Low Synergy: Low
This card is frail, but it has a good total effect. Place it in an empty slot, and it is in a way a 5/12 creature, which is not bad. Be careful about the opponent easily clearing them away, and taking over the board control. They can be used as a stalling card, before global mass destruction. Also in rare cases they can be used as a chump blocker, gaining you an extra 3 life, which might be needed in that situation.
How to counter: Block them, and take board advantage. Also you can place vulnerable creatures across them, since their 2 attack is quite low impact.
Nature Ritual
Speed: Low
Resource Balance: Excellent
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: High
This is imo one of the strongest cards in the basic houses. It's main use is in slower moving games where you are not far behind in board control, to keep important big creatures healthy. Especially non-earth elementals can become dangerous. Also creatures that are frail, but with powerful effects, such as Lightning Cloud, Water 11, Cannon, Ice Guard, and especially water 12. It has synergy with Turtle and Phantom Warrior. How to counter: This can be difficult. You can put more pressure with unblocked creatures, so he doesn't have time to play it. Forest Sprite Speed: Medium
Resource Balance: Medium
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: High Banned with Orc Chieftain
As with Lightning Cloud, he is stronger the more creatures the opponent has on the board. But in this case, it's not the defining feature of the card. More important is its high toughness, and its weak spot. The high toughness make it very good as a chump blocker, even more so since it still has an impact. Its good to block creatures that are difficult to hurt anyway, such as Turtle, or not worth it, such as Sea Sprite. You should be very careful about playing it against an open slot, since it is a bad situation if the opponent plays a mana gen there. It is strong against Phantom Warrior, and strong with Minotaur. Can also be used for its solid board presence, if you see local mass destruction coming. Sometimes it can be used to plan ahead to deal just a single or two points of damage to specific creatures. This could for example be getting the last point one turn earlier of a mana gen, or getting spiders or other weak creatures down so they can be cleared by mass destruction.
How to Counter: Play an important but weak creature in front of it. If there is no Minotaur down you can often ignore it. If there is a minotaur down, kill the minotaur, then ignore it.
Rejuvenation Speed: Low
Resource Balance: Excellent
Board Presence: Low
Synergy: Low
One of the most powerful cards in the game. Having this in your hand can allow you to play a whole different sort of game, namely the long game. Build up a resource advantage in exchange for life, let your earth grow, get enough control over the board that you have extra time, and then use this card to effectively get your life back.
How to counter: Keep the board presence so that he never gets the breathing room to use it. Watch out for it, and don't commit too much to a rush if it looks like he has it and can use it effectively.
Elf Hermit: Speed: Low Resource Balance: Excellent Board Presence: Low Synergy: High
You mostly want to play this card in the first turn of the game, or not at all. He works well with cards that are invulnerable to local destruction, since that will force the opponent to either use the destruction with limited effect, or let your earth power grow for some extra time. Because of his big effect, he has high synergy with cards that protect him, such as Cleric and Hamster.
Natural Fury: Speed: Excellent: Resource Balance: Low Board Presence: Low Synergy: Medium
Use as a finisher, or if there is a lot of life pressure on the opponent. With 11 earth mana, two in a row can be effective.
Spider
Speed: High
Resource Balance: Low
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: Medium
Very fast, but very vulnerable. If you play it, you need to consider whether the opponent can get rid of it easily, such as with Wrath of God or similar. It is also preferable to use when you already have pressure on the opponent, with unblocked slots. Watch out that you don't fill up your board with it. Good synergy with Minotaur (if there is no destruction coming), Army of Rats. Can also be used as an endgame chump blocker.
How to counter: Block the big one, and kill the other two as cost-effectively as possible.
Troll Speed: High
Resource Balance: Low
Board Presence: High
Synergy: Low
A strong card with a tragic flaw. If you have it, it's always possible that the opponent has Stone Rain, and Stone Rain is the #1 counter to it. As with Turtle it is excellent at blocking midrange creatures, such as Minotaur, Energy Beast etc. It also has one more attack than the Turtle, which makes it more effective as an unblocked attacker. It's good as a more tough accompaniment to an offensive, as it eats up the smaller mass destruction, and goes through with 6 damage. Playing it is a big commitment, and you have to watch out for large mass destruction, especially Stone Rain.
How to counter: Stone Rain
Stone Rain
Speed: Low
Resource Balance: High
Board Presence: High
Synergy: Excellent Banned with Meditation
Big cheap mass destruction. Due to these attributes it is good at getting resource advantage. Very good synergy with indestructible creatures such as Golems and Phantom Warriors.
How to counter: If there is a risk your opponent has it, avoid overcommiting, especially with midrange creatures. Play golems. Look out for his water cards, and whether he has meditation or not.
Earth Elemental
Speed: Low
Resource Balance: Excellent
Board Presence: Medium
Synergy: Low
The slowest and the biggest of the elementals. If the game is long enough, the extra health makes a huge difference, as its attack is the highest when it is near its low point in health. If the game is not so long, on the other hand it suffers compared to the other elementals, due to its lack of come into play effect. Also, as opposed to the other elementals, it doesn't have good synergy with Nature Ritual.
Master Healer
Speed: Medium
Resource Balance: Medium
Board Presence: High
Synergy: High
Strong card if there are a lot of creatures on the board, not as good as an elemental if its near empty. Can be used as a blocker of a big guy in the endgame. Synergy with Phantom Warrior, Turtle and Golems.
How to counter: If you can clear the board immediately, his effect is greatly diminished.
Hydra Speed: Medium
Resource Balance: Medium
Board Presence: High
Synergy: Excellent
Strong card if there are a lot of creatures on the board, less useful if it is near empty. Very difficult to finish off, and it will mostly stay in play until the game ends. Can be used to block a big guy in the endgame. Synergy with Orc Chieftain and Minotaur.
How to counter: Turtles. Make a decision whether to try and kill it or not, and then follow that. Modified by wiggin on 2011-11-22 12:31:27 SeaLeta | 2009-12-21 17:16:05 |
Delete Modified by SeaLeta on 2009-12-26 01:06:33 wiggin | 2009-12-21 17:25:06 |
Delete Modified by wiggin on 2009-12-27 16:26:31 SeaLeta | 2009-12-21 17:46:25 |
Delete Modified by SeaLeta on 2009-12-26 01:01:30 SeaLeta | 2009-12-21 17:52:52 |
Fire cards
as i am using a translation program, i cannot completely understand your guide.
but your guide is excellent, and i am interested in it, and i think.
i who did again it want to add to several things to your siege, but i interfere, and am reckless,
i think that it work being impudent. Modified by SeaLeta on 2009-12-26 09:36:30 wiggin | 2009-12-21 18:17:49 |
You can just write your additions. If I can understand you, and agree with you, I can add them in the list.
SeaLeta | 2009-12-21 18:26:17 |
You can just write your additions. If I can understand you, and agree with you, I can add them in the list. tnx man.
if you speek so, i want to help your guide.
however, i who flew see whether you are too talkative, and i am worried.
therefore, i will talk about a little shroud.
TurinTuramba | 2009-12-21 18:30:51 |
This seems to become an excellent strat guide. May I suggest that you also put a "How to counter:" section under each card. For example like you said with goblin berserker that playing a managiver diagonally from it is usually a good move.
Regarding Plynx: He absolutely dominated the game during patch 1.02 with his control. There were a lot of matches where he simply would not make any mistake that I could see or exploit. I am sure if he would play again, he would certainly still be among the top and play better than me. When playing with you Sealeta I learned a lot of nice moves (Illusion 2 opening etc), but I could pretty consistently see you making (minor) mistakes, which I could exploit. Not so with Plynx. He would always play the perfect counter to my moves and I rarely saw an opening to get an advantage. wiggin | 2009-12-21 18:40:05 |
This seems to become an excellent strat guide. May I suggest that you also put a "How to counter:" section under each card. For example like you said with goblin berserker that playing a managiver diagonally from it is usually a good move. Thanks. That's a good idea.
Wavelength | 2009-12-21 18:49:16 |
Plynx was really that good. I was literally winning about 10% of my games against him. Excellent strat guide, Wiggin. Modified by Wavelength on 2009-12-21 18:58:17 HeadphonesGirl | 2009-12-21 19:12:00 |
I have a strong suspicion that if plynx comes back at some point, however the metagame has developed, all he'll have to do is familiarize himself with whatever new and different cards there are, and he'll be back to dominating immediately. It had to do with something about the way he was able to see things so comprehensively, in a way no one else playing really can. I think he was basically a mathematical genius. Modified by HeadphonesGirl on 2009-12-21 19:13:10 SeaLeta | 2009-12-21 19:50:00 |
Delete Modified by SeaLeta on 2009-12-26 01:02:16 wiggin | 2009-12-21 20:01:08 |
Maybe make a different thread about Plynx...
Modified by wiggin on 2009-12-21 20:01:21 SeaLeta | 2009-12-21 20:05:50 |
Delete Modified by SeaLeta on 2009-12-26 01:02:45 SeaLeta | 2009-12-21 20:13:32 |
Delete Modified by SeaLeta on 2009-12-26 01:03:10 wiggin | 2009-12-21 20:14:03 |
Delete Modified by wiggin on 2009-12-27 16:27:13 wiggin | 2009-12-21 20:17:06 |
Delete Modified by wiggin on 2009-12-27 16:27:20 SeaLeta | 2009-12-21 20:23:03 |
Delete Modified by SeaLeta on 2009-12-26 01:03:37 Wavelength | 2009-12-21 20:49:54 |
SeaLeta, when people (myself included) adore Plynx, it's not any disrespect to you. Plynx was probably the best player at the time - but it wasn't so much his skill as the way he played way, way differently than anyone else (and also because he was so good at teaching other people). He was the first to play the really, really unpopular cards and succeed in doing so. As a result, we learned a lot from him. A lot of players became better because of Plynx. I was the second most experienced (by games played) player at the time, and I played probably 100 duels with him over the course of a few months. In that span I went from a 7-9 player to a 12-14 player, after being frozen at 7-9 for a long time.
If he came back now he'd be even better than he was before. Would he be better than you? I have no idea. You shouldn't have any need to beat him to stay secure in being one of the game's elite players.
undefeated | 2009-12-22 00:05:08 |
Sealeta, his record was 500-200 with his first account, and we all remember how good Plynx was. His record with control was 300-60, and he beat even Turin by a wide margin (who, as I've heard, has a winning record against you). Bottom line, we remember how good Plynx was, and you can't refute that... Also, like wavelength said, he changed the game, and taught many of us a lot. It's not that we worship him; it's just that we are intellectually honest, and you should have some intellectual honesty too... Are you going to call me a "noob, liar, and coward" again for saying this?
wiggin | 2009-12-22 02:24:20 |
Well. If he really was the first player to play the very unpopular cards, that says a lot about the opposition at the time. Sealeta taught us a lot also. The Turin argument is strong though. Preferably he comes back. Maybe he will come back when the expansion comes out. (In a few weeks.)
Modified by wiggin on 2009-12-22 02:24:41 Tobias | 2009-12-22 03:35:26 |
@Wiggin: Great guide mate. Certainly I've taken a pointer or two from it already. A few comments though:
From Orc Hieftain: "Otherwise it can be used to put life pressure early, with some tough smaller creatures such as Water Sprite, [...]".
I think that's a banned combo? The point remains intact, though.
From Dragon: "The strength of this card is extremely valuable, [...]".
Did you mean 'variable'? That would make more sense to me anyway.
Thanks for taking the time to share your insights.
@Sealeta: I never had the pleasure of meeting Plynx, but whether or not people like and respect 'a winner' depends not on their skill or even how they got to 'win'. No, it's about how they carry themselves, and starting a thread in your own hornour and then bitch about it when you don't feel recognized is a sure way to earn the disdain of your fellow players.
As for the broken ranking system, I quite agree (but not because it doesn't naturally entail the adoration of lower ranked players - they rarely do, you know).
No, I think it's broken because people can't duel whoever they want. To get a good (or at least better) feel for who is the better player, everyone should be allowed to play everyone. First and foremost, this would mean fewer alternate accounts (because you don't have to sit around being bored once you reach a certain lvl). Secondly, it would mean that the highest ranking players aren't isolated from the rest of the 'population' - their ranks would actually mean something more than 'I've played a long, long time'. garcia1000 | 2009-12-22 05:33:48 |
wiggin: Great start! I look forward to reading the rest of it!
You might also mention level 15+: Understanding of opponent's strategy. At level 15+, people start becoming conscious of what the opponent wants to do, and figure out ways to prevent that from happening.
SeaLeta: Don't be unhappy! Wavelength | 2009-12-22 06:40:05 |
Well. If he really was the first player to play the very unpopular cards, that says a lot about the opposition at the time.
Maybe, but it says even more about how much he changed the game, and also about how far he was ahead of everyone else (at the time). I'm only halfway joking when I call Plynx a "philosophy". whether or not people like and respect 'a winner' depends not on their skill or even how they got to 'win'. No, it's about how they carry themselves,
This is definitely true. To get a good (or at least better) feel for who is the better player, everyone should be allowed to play everyone. First and foremost, this would mean fewer alternate accounts (because you don't have to sit around being bored once you reach a certain lvl). Secondly, it would mean that the highest ranking players aren't isolated from the rest of the 'population' - their ranks would actually mean something more than 'I've played a long, long time'.
This, on the other hand... I don't see any reasoning behind it. If high-level players could play the lower ones, they'd be able to boost their ratings even more. The current system, I feel, slightly favors people who play people below their skill level, and except for the one-half-point (on average) gain each round, there's nothing broken about it. Even the half-point gain evens itself out, because if that's what ends up boosting you to the next level, it's going to cost you a point next time for playing someone a level below you. Wavelength | 2009-12-22 06:44:14 |
Also, Wiggin... first of all, like I said, great guide, but there are two analyses I really disagree with. I at least see where you're coming from on Flame Wave so I'll address Fire Elemental.
What is it about short games that you think makes him better? I'd appreciate if you could be really detailed here because I think I might be missing something crucial. I'm wondering if your experiences have just been completely opposite of mine.
In my games, he's the most dangerous in a long game. In short games, whoever spent all their time getting the Fire Elemental pumped up ends up so far ahead in life or general board control that, even though they're in a better "position" at the end of the game, they lose it because they weren't able to hold on long enough.
On the other hand, in long games is where he's really dangerous. Either he gets to 16 before you can kill him (in which case the second one is REALLY dangerous), or the game gets to the point where three or four of the guys hit the table and eventually wear our the opponent's mana.
SeaLeta | 2009-12-22 08:14:09 |
Delete Modified by SeaLeta on 2009-12-26 01:04:06 SeaLeta | 2009-12-22 09:07:47 |
Delete Modified by SeaLeta on 2009-12-26 01:04:26 wiggin | 2009-12-22 09:42:23 |
@Wiggin: Great guide mate. Certainly I've taken a pointer or two from it already. A few comments though:
From Orc Hieftain: "Otherwise it can be used to put life pressure early, with some tough smaller creatures such as Water Sprite, [...]".
I think that's a banned combo? The point remains intact, though.
From Dragon: "The strength of this card is extremely valuable, [...]".
Did you mean 'variable'? That would make more sense to me anyway.
Thanks for taking the time to share your insights.
Thanks. Yes, you're right, it should be variable. Water Sprite is correct though, I think you're thinking of Forest Sprite.
wiggin | 2009-12-22 09:44:11 |
Also, Wiggin... first of all, like I said, great guide, but there are two analyses I really disagree with. I at least see where you're coming from on Flame Wave so I'll address Fire Elemental.
What is it about short games that you think makes him better? I'd appreciate if you could be really detailed here because I think I might be missing something crucial. I'm wondering if your experiences have just been completely opposite of mine.
(...)
Thanks. I actually agree fully with you. I meant to say that *compared to the other elementals* it is better suited for a shorter game. But in itself it is a longer game card like you explain. I will rewrite that one. What are your thoughts on flame wave?
Tobias | 2009-12-22 10:03:59 |
"I think you're thinking of Forest Sprite."
I think so too. :-) undefeated | 2009-12-22 13:58:14 |
... to eric : i praised all the time you. the time when you made 30LV i was pleased sincerely. and i won greatly to turinturamba day...i was thankful for column u. and i talk. but u every talk disregarded me. (15 : 2...etc) the talk is a stupid talk. therefore i talked, that you are liar. and a case speaking ill of is independent of me. but, is made a talk throughout being defeated that is 'fucking' put it, you seem to be poor in my eye. i am thankful, and it thinks that purchase is able to have been called due to this your game. i was able to finish a stupid legend of your due to Plynx. i talked in you and dawn, and i am remembering a season. the column season seemed to be the most happy. i was known thing that stupid reputation greed didn't have a use since a column champion was. i will leave sooner or later... if i am so, and i am, another stupid legend may do the birth... it is the false champion who doesn't exist in the existence... i apologize sincerely to my talk if grieved.
I don't really know what you mean when you say I disregard you in discussions. You were happy that you did well against Turin and got to level 30, that's great, but that was just you. How excited do you want me to be for you; it was you not me, and it doesn't change anything. To me it's just another opponent that got experience.. For some reason you keep saying I'm your teacher, but I didn't teach you, you taught yourself. So when you say that I should be happy for you, and I disregard you, I'm not disregarding you. I'm just doing my thing. I'm not the number one rank, you are.. Want me to "worship" you like you say people do of Plynx? What can I do besides acknowledging and saying "nice job?" .. Originally, all I did was not agree with Bluedawn when he said with the ranks were, and disagreed with you about how good Plynx was, and you called me conceited along with other insults. That's childish. You also don't need to bring our disagreements up in the forum. If you have further responses, tell me in the game lobby.
Forgin | 2009-12-22 15:46:13 |
Great guide so far and I'm looking forward to the rest of it. I'm still tring to get beyond the point of lvl 12-14 I've been stuck in for ages now, so any advice from the top players is really helpful. Seems there is always something new to learn. For example Fire 7, I've always disregarded that one as a mediocre card because it dies so quickly and +1 damage doesn't seem all that much but I'll certainly give him another chance now.  Zannoland | 2009-12-22 18:23:39 |
I'd put special utility of Air 2 and 3 at "excellent", because I've totally lost track of the number of games where I really wish I had a griffin :\ Griffin is good when your opponent has less than 5 hp left. As simple as this may sound, this actually happens a lot when you play as illusion. Modified by Zannoland on 2009-12-22 18:24:57 wiggin | 2009-12-22 20:54:39 |
With special utility I mean i it works good with specific cards. Like Minotaur and Forest Sprite together. Maybe I should call it something else. "Synergy."
Timpelplomp | 2009-12-22 21:56:21 |
This should be my first post on the whole forum simply because i did not have any questions before, but is Plynx really gone? A couple of weeks ago i ran into Plynx and not knowing who he was i asked him, if he was a high level side account -quite naive really- Of course me having not played over 150 matches, lost horribly against him but i do remember distinctly that he was there, so I'm not sure if he is entirely gone That was also the first game were i felt that i was defeated by pure ability and flawless play rather than me making mistakes
To Wiggins guide I really like all your contributions on the forum and they helped me a lot in understanding the concept of this game, for Armageddon i would say the way i play it is mainly as a threat a bit like death 7 or earth 9 (people at my level usually are not scared of stone rain though) it is very useful in convincing your opponent of not using that inferno that he has or a different mass destruction so i normally leave it unplayed until the end of the game or combine it with something like stone rain for the big creatures seeing as you usually play this card quite late and in the late game i find life advantage more important than power advantage i would rate the resource balance at high As for a counter i would say that one should have a select force of units (I'm not one for clotting the field anyway) and to use spells like earth 6 to put life pressure on the opponent since the only thing Arma does not do is heal ----->pressure the opponent in playing a different card so to speak or force an Armageddon, with something like insanian shaman ( a card that seems to genuinely piss people off, the reason why i like it so much) Also stuff that survives the Arma is always a good thing - I just find its more often used for the dmg than the board clear effect Or staying close to the line of death, to make the opponent think that he can win if he waits a turn or two (leaves fire untouched) just to see a heal card come out, but I'm suspecting that only works when playing with low levels like i do (since I'm one as well)
Also a good counter against goblin berserker is putting a minotaur commander in an adjacent spot - helps to keep him alive + heavy board pressure I'm sorry for the long entry, I'm not experienced in writing on forums yet Modified by Timpelplomp on 2009-12-22 22:24:48 Zannoland | 2009-12-23 02:45:53 |
With special utility I mean i it works good with specific cards. Like Minotaur and Forest Sprite together. Maybe I should call it something else. "Synergy." I think your rating of griffin is still very shot. Consider how much damage you can do with griffin spam compared to lightning bolt. Griffin is slow but very cost effective if you compare him to other means of dealing direct damage, fire wall is the same way on creature damage. compare to earth 6, for example, which will rarely do more than 18 damage and you don't get a creature out of it.
Modified by Zannoland on 2009-12-23 02:47:45 SeaLeta | 2009-12-23 04:41:35 |
Delete Modified by SeaLeta on 2009-12-26 01:04:56 wiggin | 2009-12-23 05:47:37 |
... I think your rating of griffin is still very shot.
How so? Remember that the resource balance evaluates whether its a card you want to play for the resources, and it isn't. It's a card you want to play to kill the opponent. Also a factor is that higher mana is worth more than lower, so it has a real cost that is somewhere above 2.
Zannoland | 2009-12-23 06:50:06 |
... How so? Remember that the resource balance evaluates whether its a card you want to play for the resources, and it isn't. It's a card you want to play to kill the opponent. Also a factor is that higher mana is worth more than lower, so it has a real cost that is somewhere above 2.
i suppose by that logic there is no possible way to deal damage to the opponent in a resource effective manner, but if you look at your other options of dealing direct damage to the opponent, griffin is one of the most cost effective ways to do so. i don't understand how you can give fire wall high resource balance and griffin low resource balance when you stop and consider how incredibly expensive the other direct damage spells are (specifically, it's considered half as good as the value of an all-creature attack, and there are more cards you can directly compare beyond flame wave vs chain lightning to support this). you seem to realize how inexpensive the game considers mass creature damage in comparison to direct player damage, so i'm not sure why you can't see why griffin is so cost effective. Modified by Zannoland on 2009-12-23 06:57:25 SeaLeta | 2009-12-23 08:44:49 |
hey wiggin.
your guide is excellent. good job! (i disturb your work, and i am sorry for my personal reason)
if i would advise you. you have haded better give a little more consideration to beginners.
i think a purpose to write a guide that it is to have to give consideration to beginners.
(i want to be able to be easily enjoyed everybody this game.)
i will a little advise to you.
Fire1 : i think fire1+2 = good. fire1 4attackx2 + fire2 5damage = 13. because fire3, earth5 kill.
etc how to counter : fire2, earth3, air5, control4
Fire3 : i like fire3. i think him that it is an 'observer'. about this game a second turn player is favrable.
and i think. there is the reason that class pow starts to 3, the reason is as response can call an action
to enemy. first player starts one or two turn to fire3, and it is good that i observe an enemy. is
aggressive when playa a game, fire3 isn't good particularly, as you talked.
Fire4 : i thought that it was the card that wasn't the best biginner season dirt this game. but now i like
very. fire4+fire2 or air3 --> fire3 or earth5 kill...is good. and...i will speak the match that i did.
(second play) 1turn earth7, 2turn fire4, 3turn fire4, 4turn water7, 5turn meca7, 6turn air8...game end.
fire4 is a card to be fearful really if use it well.
Fire5 : i think that fire5+earth3 was impossible you that i shall speak thing.
etc combo i like : earth2, fire4, death3, meca2, water7,
all attack-6~9 creature. (among other things, meca6 is fearful.)
Fire9 : an enemy is fast if attcak it, this card is used bravely. vs earth7 = air1 or earth3 + fire9 good.
and vs chaos2...water8 is better, and this card i think.
Fire10 : i think all elemental < meca6. meca6 is an elemental hunter.
Fire11 : it is a card to be the best i this game.(i think...100% certain.)
How to counter : water4, meca5, ilu2, 4...(it is natural too -_-;;) endure 19damage water2, 7, earth8
etc...i prefer it. (among other things, water2. she is strong, and it is economical.)
i had better be a little helpful to you. Modified by SeaLeta on 2009-12-23 08:53:12 wiggin | 2009-12-23 11:10:33 |
hey wiggin. your guide is excellent. good job! (i disturb your work, and i am sorry for my personal reason) if i would advise you. you have haded better give a little more consideration to beginners. i think a purpose to write a guide that it is to have to give consideration to beginners. (i want to be able to be easily enjoyed everybody this game.) i will a little advise to you.
Thank Sea. Yeah, it's maybe not a perfect guide for beginners. But I think, that is not for me to write. I modified some of the descriptions above, using your comments, as far as I can understand them.
undefeated | 2009-12-23 13:22:26 |
... i will talk short. the bluedawn talked, quatre is strong. the rank talk you did it first. you must talk only fact!!! you liar.
Great, you insulted me again. Now all your apologies to me are dirt.. It's funny that such a loser is a winner in this game...
wiggin | 2009-12-23 13:45:29 |
... I think your rating of griffin is still very shot. Consider how much damage you can do with griffin spam compared to lightning bolt. Griffin is slow but very cost effective if you compare him to other means of dealing direct damage, fire wall is the same way on creature damage. compare to earth 6, for example, which will rarely do more than 18 damage and you don't get a creature out of it.
I see what you're saying. Griffin is good at dealing cost-effective damage over time, whereas lightning bolt deals heavier immediate damage, but at a larger cost. I see how you could differentiate between the two, but my rating system is not that detailed. There is only differentiation between cards which are good at getting the opponents life to 0 (Cards with high speed), and cards which are good at overtaking the game, and eventually winning regardless of the opponents life total (Cards with high resource balance.) The ratings themselves don't differentiate between different kind of subtypes. Modified by wiggin on 2009-12-23 13:55:25 player001 | 2009-12-24 06:02:06 |
I dont get this: why do you even bother trying to understand this sealeta guy? I, for one, couldnt care less what hes mumbling... This was supposed to be a discussion about the guide! BTW I'd like to congrat Wiggin for sharing his thoughts with all the players. Sealeta please do us all a favor and go cry somewhere else cause we really dont give a flying f*ck about you nor your ranking, ok? Thank you 
SeaLeta | 2009-12-24 08:13:48 |
your talk is kind. i am and any more stupid frog and S.L (it is a simplified SeaLeta and Stupid Legend) regarding is stupid don't want it for discussing it. and is Plynx103 talked. "i am legend' his talk is right. Plynx is a legend to fools and frogs. and it SeaLeta is the same. he is stupid legend. (but SeaLeta was done a producer of this game and an argument so as to be childish do not it. i support a producer of this game. he made a game excellent very. therefore i don't run away because of the new version like frog.)
i don't want to disturb work of my friend. because delete will call alll stupid sentences which i wrote. but i don't want it for leave misunderstanding, and running away. because the people who confirmed this sentence delete each own sentence. i will delete all sentences with criticisms tomorrow.
Forgin | 2009-12-24 10:49:37 |
I dont get this: why do you even bother trying to understand this sealeta guy? I, for one, couldnt care less what hes mumbling... This was supposed to be a discussion about the guide! BTW I'd like to congrat Wiggin for sharing his thoughts with all the players. Sealeta please do us all a favor and go cry somewhere else cause we really dont give a flying f*ck about you nor your ranking, ok? Thank you 
Actually I do care about him and his ranking. His ranking clearly shows that SeaLeta has a great understanding of the game and that makes it worthwhile to talk with him. What I don't see, is why I should listen to an unregistrered alt account who is too cowardly to show who he really is. And please, next time you insult someone please don't speak like you're talking for all of us, you're not. ic Wiggin added more creatures to the list, I look forward to reading them and keep it up  I'm kinda confused what you mean with this about Elven Healer: "Place it in an empty slot, and it is in a way a 5/12 creature, which is not bad."
Could you explain please?
Modified by Forgin on 2009-12-24 11:05:02 wiggin | 2009-12-24 11:25:14 |
I'm kinda confused what you mean with this about Elven Healer: "Place it in an empty slot, and it is in a way a 5/12 creature, which is not bad."
If both players are attacking each other with unopposed creatures, preventing damage can be the same as dealing damage. And this one deals 2, and prevents 3, so overall 5. Particularly nice is if the opponent has an unblocked Sea Sprite, and you have an unblocked Elvish Healer. he will take 4 damage per turn, and you only 2, even though his creature is more expensive.
SeaLeta | 2009-12-24 13:45:36 |
Air Cards
call to thunder : when use calls this card, check shall do who an owner of earth2 is. utilization can call more freely call to thunder if there is earth2 to me.
ex) water5 <---- (this player have air3&earth2) = 2 turn meca3 kill
meca3
but if) water5 <---- (air3 have) if this player used air3...this player is disadvantageous.
meca3 <----- (earth2 have)
wall of lightning : i think very good guard. (there isn't a creature card to be suitable for a defense in these games particularly.) and air5+fire11 is great combo. i don't want to meet with this strategy...lol
lightning bolt : i think this card is...this game second strong card!!! (number1 is fire11)
phoenix : i think...complicated to explain it about this card. (my language there is a limit.)
but i think...phoenix = a card for death! (and vs death) death7 and 8 both good combo. and air7+death2
i very like. it is feeling every turn using water8!!
air8 and air9 : this is strategic tip. even if i have fire6 or 9, if an enemy has air9, in the enermy probability
not to have air8 is high.
titan : titan is large creatures hunter.(this is too obvious.) but i think it is the object of a fear to weak
creatures. the water5, fire3, earth5, holy3, etc which appeared in it to 1turn. (or 2turn and 3turn)
there is a route i disregarded it, and to destroy later to air12.(a situation can suddenly become a reversal) i think this is important. Modified by SeaLeta on 2009-12-24 13:46:14 wiggin | 2009-12-24 13:50:20 |
phoenix : i think...complicated to explain it about this card. (my language there is a limit.)but i think...phoenix = a card for death! (and vs death) death7 and 8 both good combo. and air7+death2 i very like. it is feeling every turn using water8!! Yes, this is true. I don't consider death cards in my list, as I never play death. (And hate it.)
wiggin | 2009-12-24 13:58:26 |
titan : titan is large creatures hunter.(this is too obvious.) but i think it is the object of a fear to weakcreatures. the water5, fire3, earth5, holy3, etc which appeared in it to 1turn. (or 2turn and 3turn) there is a route i disregarded it, and to destroy later to air12.(a situation can suddenly become a reversal) i think this is important. I cannot understand what you are saying here. Can you try and say it a different way?
wiggin | 2009-12-24 13:58:30 |
call to thunder : when use calls this card, check shall do who an owner of earth2 is. utilization can call more freely call to thunder if there is earth2 to me.air8 and air9 : this is strategic tip. even if i have fire6 or 9, if an enemy has air9, in the enermy probability not to have air8 is high. Yes, I will add these.
SeaLeta | 2009-12-24 14:23:08 |
... I cannot understand what you are saying here. Can you try and say it a different way?
sometimes i enjoy these routes.
the fellow who is troublesome like water5, fire3, earth5, holy3. i like don't interfere.
later get air power12, titan summons 15damage. if is very good. (if timing wasn't very late.)
ex) 2~3turn enemy holy3 summons = 4~6 turn titan summons. 15+9 = 24 damege.
ex) 1turn enemy fire3 summons. at this time disregard just fire3! is continuously aggressive while playing a game, 4~6 turn titan summons. 15 damege --> fire3 kill. = a number of a creature of enemy -1,
and my creature +1 (and it is 9/40 very strong creature.) this is a result excellent very.
sometimes i deal with earth5 by this route. Modified by SeaLeta on 2009-12-24 14:43:51 Wavelength | 2009-12-24 15:02:22 |
Thanks. I actually agree fully with you. I meant to say that *compared to the other elementals* it is better suited for a shorter game. But in itself it is a longer game card like you explain. I will rewrite that one. What are your thoughts on flame wave?
I feel like I have a hard time really articulating it, but I've never felt that Flame Wave was worth what you're spending for it. I love this card at the beginning of the game (unless I'm specifically saving up for a higher Fire card) to put some pressure on or wipe out mana gainers. It's even got some uses later on, but more often than not I find myself staring at a line of Elementals, Turtles, Trolls, and Dragons, wondering what the heck 9 damage is going to do for me. It gives you twice the damage (and speed) of Wall of Fire, but it costs 6 mana rather than 2 and doesn't put down a creature on the board (which in my opinion is a slight weakness). I feel you've got to give it a lower rating in Resource Balance than Wall of Fire, and an equal rating in Board Control. This is just based on my experiences of course... there are cards that EricKiller and Plynx use in ways that I think are really dicey at the time, and they end up dominating that game.
Wavelength | 2009-12-24 15:14:24 |
Also, I feel I'm misunderstanding the meaning of the "Board Presence" category slightly. Particularly for Water Elemental and Mind Master, I think we can agree that they are both monstrous if they can stay on the board long enough, and that more often than not they do manage to hang out there long enough to do so. Can we say Water Elemental has an average attack of 5-6 (though at low speed)? Does cost factor into Board Presence or is that solely handled by Resource Balance?
In Mind Master's case, it's moreso a question of gaining enough mana to easily keep the guy on the board (which greatly increases your board presence, if not his)--does that count in the same way that spells count for Board Presence?
Really good guide overall, Wiggin. Enjoyable read and superb analysis.
Wiggin1 | 2009-12-24 18:22:33 |
Thanks
Flame Wave I also wrote that Flame Wave is best in the early game. Sometimes its also useful later, and sometimes not, as you say. Yeah, Wall of Fire has higher Resource Balance, I agree. But I still think they are both within the high category. Flame Wave has a lot higher board presence though, since 9 damage will clear a lot more of the creatures than 5 will. Hmm, I think you may be right that I possibly overvalue the card. I can see that Sealeta gives it rating (B), whereas for me it would be at least an (A). Differences in playstyle perhaps.
Board Presence. Cost is factored in. If the card costs more, I expect more board presence of it. Board presence for Mind Master is low, simply because its stats are very low for a 11 cost creature. His ability only counts in the resource balance, whereas a card like Cannon has an ability that gives it huge board presence. Elementals can grow to have high board presence, and I think they are on the edge between low and medium, but it takes them a while. For instance, compared to Merfolk overlord, who hits hard all that time while an elemental would grow, the board presence is far inferior.
CIever | 2009-12-27 15:13:34 |
Wiggin, I admire your articles about 4 elemental houses. Can you in addition fill up earth&water houses with short descriptions, as you have done with fire&air? Your opinion is very wholesome. Modified by CIever on 2009-12-27 15:19:44 wiggin | 2009-12-27 15:14:57 |
Yes, I will do that eventually. Work in progress.
SordesPilosus | 2009-12-27 17:05:44 |
SeaLeta, why don't you play truely random? Your record as playing holy seems to be prevailing. In my opinion the best players shouldn't care about what power to play. Otherwise it looks like you choose Holy as it gives you more points as it is easier to play.
wiggin | 2009-12-27 17:38:25 |
Because he played a lot before buying the game.
SordesPilosus | 2009-12-27 20:00:02 |
Because he played a lot before buying the game. Ah I got it.
walkindude | 2009-12-28 15:31:20 |
wiggin, thanks very much for taking the time to make this guide. it's great being able to get info like this on the game.
CIever | 2010-01-09 01:47:51 |
I deems it my duty to tell that Wiggipedia wanna go on ;)Â
Tobias | 2010-01-09 13:28:14 |
hehe. 'Wiggipedia' - That is Clever. :-D
wiggin | 2010-01-10 12:04:08 |
It will be finished in 2-4 weeks.
Derizat | 2010-01-10 12:45:19 |
Lol
Derizat | 2010-01-10 12:45:38 |
Lol
It will be finished in 2-4 weeks. undefeated | 2010-01-10 14:46:24 |
I think another counter for dragon should b lightning cloud and ancient giant. If the lightning cloud is already out there, the giant comes in and the lightning cloud hits the dragon 4. The next turn they hit it for a combined 13. The dragon is already down to 25, if it was at full health before. A board clear or two, and the dragon can be gone in 3 turns total... I like this counter because it usually works out that the lightning cloud is a turn before dragon, and the ancient giant is right after.
wiggin | 2010-01-10 16:29:47 |
Hmm, makes sense. I have never tried that myself though. It's a pretty specific set of circumstances you'd need for that.
undefeated | 2010-01-10 20:04:26 |
Ya, its a low percentage of the time, but it lines itself up just right, and I used it a couple of time very nicely vs. dragon. I guess its not a true counter because its a low percentage of the time, but its very effective and you have great board control after. It happens when u see the dragon about to come uot, u put the lightning cloud behind a weak creature. Then you bring out ancient giant next turn vs dragon (likely that dragon will kill his blocker if he even had one), before dragon can do a board clearer. Even if he has chain lightning reayd, you've already cleared up the board, and your giant has a LOT of hp so he'll beat dragon. Modified by undefeated on 2010-01-10 20:09:20 Wavelength | 2010-01-11 15:18:29 |
Yeah, it doesn't seem like any kind of true counter to me, since in most cases you're either going to have to wait for a good spot to be open for L-Cloud (in which case Dragon may beat Giant onto the field), or you're going to have to put it in an empty space, in which case Dragon comes in and destroys it even if you can get Giant down.
undefeated | 2010-01-11 17:15:16 |
I'll use it against you and see how it works out :-).. And, I feel that much more confident dragon-rushing you. Modified by undefeated on 2010-01-11 17:17:51 Wavelength | 2010-01-11 19:52:52 |
Well, you should feel comfortable Dragon-rushing anyone, since the card is absurdly overpowered with a majority of draws.
wiggin | 2010-01-11 21:13:39 |
It is overpowered with a vast minority of draws.
Zannoland | 2010-01-11 21:16:09 |
Dragon+Chain+Insert Special Sweep Here
I really don't see how this is a vast minority of draws.
Wavelength | 2010-01-12 03:15:13 |
I'd say Dragon + (Meditation or Merfolk Apostate or Divine Intervention) + (Chain Lightning or Natural Fury or Any Special Sweep) is quite overpowered unless your opponent is packing Tornado (which hard-counters nearly everything) or a good Control draw. That's a lot of different combinations which make Dragon really hard to beat, and none of those combinations are rare. I might play a Lightning Cloud to the left of the Dragon in some games, but it would only be if I'm quite sure my opponent won't have any "local mass destruction" for at least three turns, and that doesn't happen too often. Modified by Wavelength on 2010-01-12 03:22:35 garcia1000 | 2010-01-12 03:50:05 |
Let's calculate the damage!
You have lightning cloud out, he plays Dragon
You play Ancient Giant Dragon: 42 HP -> 38 HP Giant: 52 HP
He skips turn Dragon: 38 HP Giant: 52 HP -> 43 HP
You play something? No idea Dragon: 38 HP -> 25 HP Giant: 43 HP
He plays poisonous cloud Dragon: 25 HP Giant: 43 HP -> 1 HP
Giant still loses!
Zannoland | 2010-01-12 05:04:44 |
Let's calculate the damage!
You have lightning cloud out, he plays Dragon
You play Ancient Giant Dragon: 42 HP -> 38 HP Giant: 52 HP
He skips turn Dragon: 38 HP Giant: 52 HP -> 43 HP
You play something? No idea Dragon: 38 HP -> 25 HP Giant: 43 HP
He plays poisonous cloud Dragon: 25 HP Giant: 43 HP -> 1 HP
Giant still loses!
well yeah control 5+dragon is the only combo in this version that legitimately needs to be banned, although sometimes i wonder if holy 4+dragon is just as broken undefeated | 2010-01-12 06:55:34 |
Garcia, assuming he doesn't have poison cloud but has the normal sweep of chain lightning, then lets calculate it. You left off with dragon at 25 and giant at 43. Chain lightning giant at 20, dragon 25 (lightning cloud dies) giant 20 dragon 16 Giant 11 dragon 16 giant 11 dragon 7 giant 2 dragon 7 dragon dead Meanwhile, lightning cloud hit all opponents creatures for 8 probably, which will kill half and put the other half within sweep range. If he does have poison cloud, maybe you have control 1 too. Control 1 may not stop control 5 long enough for giant to survive, but can delay dragon enough to be within sweepable range. Finally, lets assume he has control 5, and chain lighting and you don't have control/it wont hold off dragon long enough; you've done enough to finish off creatures (dragons at 25) with stone rain (and cloud probably killed golems). This may not stop dragon, but will deal with 90% of dragon, merfolk apostate, chain lightning, tornado draws instead of just clicking surrender.
Modified by undefeated on 2010-01-12 07:10:13 wiggin | 2010-01-12 09:50:45 |
I'd say Dragon + (Meditation or Merfolk Apostate or Divine Intervention) + (Chain Lightning or Natural Fury or Any Special Sweep) is quite overpowered unless your opponent is packing Tornado (which hard-counters nearly everything) or a good Control draw. That's a lot of different combinations which make Dragon really hard to beat, and none of those combinations are rare.
I might play a Lightning Cloud to the left of the Dragon in some games, but it would only be if I'm quite sure my opponent won't have any "local mass destruction" for at least three turns, and that doesn't happen too often. Yeah, it has to be more along these lines. There has to be something to accelerate it, for it to be really dangerous. And the opponent must not have tornado. Already that's a minority of draws. In addition, I don't think Meditation can cut it, it's really risky to meditate more than once in the early game. You will be rushed. Divine Intervention is a possibility, but then you don't have holy 6, so that again lessens the chance for a good Dragon draw. Natural Fury is good with Dragon, no doubt. But if you have used a lot of early time saving up mana for the Dragon, you want something that gets you board control, not just direct damage. What I personally think is overpowered regarding Dragon is Dragon + Merfolk Apostate + (Control 5, Holy 4, Air 8, Holy 6, Mech 7, Chaos 4, in order) + The opponent doesn't have Tornado. So, a minority of draws, but it does happen sometimes.
Modified by wiggin on 2010-01-12 09:52:18 Wavelength | 2010-01-13 07:13:07 |
... Yeah, it has to be more along these lines. There has to be something to accelerate it, for it to be really dangerous. And the opponent must not have tornado. Already that's a minority of draws. In addition, I don't think Meditation can cut it, it's really risky to meditate more than once in the early game. You will be rushed. Divine Intervention is a possibility, but then you don't have holy 6, so that again lessens the chance for a good Dragon draw. Natural Fury is good with Dragon, no doubt. But if you have used a lot of early time saving up mana for the Dragon, you want something that gets you board control, not just direct damage.
What I personally think is overpowered regarding Dragon is Dragon + Merfolk Apostate + (Control 5, Holy 4, Air 8, Holy 6, Mech 7, Chaos 4, in order) + The opponent doesn't have Tornado. So, a minority of draws, but it does happen sometimes.
Well, the way I see it, Mediation is pretty powerful because you're pumping your Air Power at the same time. Yes, you have to give up Board Advantage, but especially if you can manage two Chain Lightnings (very doable using Merfolk Elder + Meditation) once Dragon comes out, you gain it all back. So, I feel like Meditation is almost as good as Apostate. So with that in mind, the odds that one of the two players is going to have the combination of Dragon + Medi / Apost + any Board Clear you mentioned + no Opponent Tornado might be between 1 in 6 and 1 in 7, which is enough that it can get frustrating. Further, cards like Natural Fury and Call to Thunder and Dark Ritual and especially Lightning Bolt work sickeningly well with Dragon--not enough to overpower Dragon by themselves but definitely enough to make a tough game into a nearly unwinnable one. Admittedly, Dragon is not ridiculous in truly high-level play (20+) - but well under 1% of players have gotten to that level. So, for 99.5% of players in this metagame, the thing is just sick. Even at 20+, Dragon is still quite good. Even if you figure out how to counter it, sometimes you CAN'T counter it, and the best you can hope to do is avert it (let it do its damage and stick to a rush or healing plan, or maybe something even more bizarre), which is tough. As such, even with your philosophy of "learn how to user cards against it", shouldn't it be nerfed? Modified by Wavelength on 2010-01-13 14:59:57 wiggin | 2010-01-13 09:48:45 |
Well yeah. I still disagree about the details, and 1/7 is too high. But your overall point stands, there are some games which are way uphill if the opponent has a specific Dragon draw. And yes, I'm against that, even with my philosophy. (And it's the only thing in the game I feel like that about, except slightly for Holy 5.) The problem regarding nerfing is, if you don't get these specific draws, Dragon is already weaker than Fire 10 and Fire 12. So I'm not sure what I would want to do about it.
Wavelength | 2010-01-13 15:19:16 |
(Dragon + Blood Ritual is a complete game changer, too--nearly as good as Dragon + Poisonous Cloud IMO) Rough estimates: Dragon = 1/3 chance Meditation or Merfolk Apostate = at least 2/3 chance (drops significantly under your assertion that Medi doesn't cut it) Desired Sweep = Let's say 3/4 for most classes (drawing either your Special Sweep or Chain Lightning and 4/5 for Holy, where Divine Justice and Wrath of God are both great No Opponent Tornado = 2/3 2 players have the chance to do this in a given game So, 1/3 * 2/3 * 3/4 * 2/3 * 2 = 24/108 or 2 in 9 games for all classes except Illusion. And 1/3 * 2/3 * 4/5 * 2/3 * 2 = 32/135 or nearly 1 in 4 games if both players are Holy. To be fair, in some games this may be hard to set up and the combination will never rear its ugly head, and also Chain Lightning isn't quite as much a death knell as some Special spells with Dragon (excluding Chain Lightning, I think the odds become approximately 1 in 5 for most classes and 2 in 9 for Holy). I agree with your assertion that Dragon is only overpowered in certain situations. I feel it doesn't quite require having a sweep (any spell will make him worth your while) - my opinion is that he's a little too good with any ability to rush him out. Fire Elemental, likewise, is only good when you have some way to pump Fire - despite the high overall winning percentage, if you're missing Meditation, Merfolk Apostate, and Divine Intervention, he becomes pretty lousy, and nearly unplayable if you also don't have creature healing. I personally feel the best solution would be to change Merfolk Apostate (my suggestion being 3/12 and you gain the mana on its death), nerf Dragon to either 10/34 or to 33% spell bonus, and consider compensating Fire Elemental with 1 or 2 extra life to make up for the lowered ability to pump with Apostate.
Modified by Wavelength on 2010-01-13 15:27:13 wiggin | 2010-01-13 16:02:24 |
Yeah, I never play Death, so I exclude death cards in my analysis.
Yeah, I would exclude meditation. And also, you actually mostly need to
know that the opponent doesn't have Tornado if you are to risk rushing
Dragon out with the Apostate. So in my calculations thats 1/3 * 1/3 * 3/4 * 1/3 = 1 in 36 games the opponent does this to you. (Assuming he doesn't take the risk or see you Lightning cloud) I can live with Meditation or Fury or whatever, that doesn't feel worse than other normal good draws.
You can't nerf the Dragons stats like that. It will be a wasted spot then in almost all games, except if you get exactly the right draw.
Wavelength | 2010-01-13 16:58:18 |
Interesting way to look at it. If I think my opponent may have Tornado, I personally like to try to put out a "bait" card (such as Phoenix or Earth Elemental) and hope my opponent Tornado's that. If he doesn't in the first two turns (as a heuristic), I'll play Dragon anyhow.
Those nerfs are a reflection of how good I think Dragon is now, on average. I know you disagree somewhat. But, I feel that at 33% spell boost (and the same stats) it would still be slightly better than the entirely decent Titan, which is really the only comparable non-Special card in the game.
Well we've had this argument about dragon before. He's probably better as a too expensive utility card than what he is now, but I think 33% and at most a lose of a couple of hit points would be plenty. I actually like Fire Apostate. I'd rather fix the issues with it than change it.
I am looking forward to the rest of the cards being discussed.
garcia1000 | 2010-01-14 09:57:55 |
Yeah, 33% is the best way. This reduces the polarised nature of a dragon.
wiggin | 2010-01-14 12:03:11 |
You guys should keep in mind, that Dragon is now, it's on average *worse* than Armageddon or Fire Elemental. Statistics show this. So if you nerf him, you will aggrevate this problem. If you reduce the spell boost, you should increase his other stats, not reduce them also. Modified by wiggin on 2010-01-14 12:05:16 Zannoland | 2010-01-14 17:35:44 |
You guys should keep in mind, that Dragon is now, it's on average *worse* than Armageddon or Fire Elemental. Statistics show this. So if you nerf him, you will aggrevate this problem. If you reduce the spell boost, you should increase his other stats, not reduce them also. nobody gives a shit 1) the problem with the card is the CHOICE if you were to draw out of a game tree of broken dragon draws the dragon player would win 100% of the time. in a broken dragon draw you literally cannot kill your opponent. your board will melt over and over and the dragon will continue to plink at you for 9 damage until your have the mana to cast the mass destruction you don't have in hand anyway. 2) the devs stat collection is poor and they've acknowledged it dragon in hand != dragon played. say you have 3 fire mana draw, or you are facing some cute rush tactic which dominate level 20+ play in part BECAUSE dragon exists. so quit holding that over people's head in every thread, because it's completely irrelevant to the problems dragon has.
Modified by Zannoland on 2010-01-14 17:59:43 fail22 | 2010-01-14 18:36:19 |
Some of the same arguments were raised and discussed here: http://www.spectromancer.com/forum.cgi#pageid=497I think you guys underestimate how much a 33% change in damage is a major change. Wiggin, I think you (we in the past thread) should consider balance at a whole and not just level 20+ players. At my level, I'd suspect Dragon would still be one of the best cards, but it wouldn't be as problematic. Anyway 33% plus the new expansion would be very nice, its almost not worth debating balance if the developers aren't doing anything :(
Haha, on the day I was most pessimistic about seeing new changes in the game, I log in and see Cooler, and then find the new version is posted.
Zannoland | 2010-01-14 20:46:05 |
Some of the same arguments were raised and discussed here: http://www.spectromancer.com/forum.cgi#pageid=497
I think you guys underestimate how much a 33% change in damage is a major change. Wiggin, I think you (we in the past thread) should consider balance at a whole and not just level 20+ players. At my level, I'd suspect Dragon would still be one of the best cards, but it wouldn't be as problematic. Anyway 33% plus the new expansion would be very nice, its almost not worth debating balance if the developers aren't doing anything :( it would gimp dragon for direct damage break however, the decrease on sweeps is actually not so bad chain: 14->12 divine: 18->16 cannonade: 30->27
wiggin | 2010-01-14 20:54:14 |
because it's completely irrelevant to the problems dragon has.
Not if you suggest nerfing it (further).
Volt28 | 2010-01-26 21:21:45 |
Wiggen,
I am jumping into Spectromancer fairly late in a more serious manner. Mostly played against the AI and poorly :) This guide is very intriguing and would love an offline copy if you have one. Reading on the net is still not fun for me and sitting in the easy chair with a bourbon and a cigar would make for easier reading. If you have one and don't mind sending it: vtwin.28 at gmail dot com Thanks for all the effort you have put into your various guides. I have done similiar work elswhere and it's pretty time consuming.
wiggin | 2010-01-26 23:28:24 |
Hey. Well thanks... and lol.. how could I email you an offline copy.
I don't have it anywhere other than here actually.
Wavelength | 2010-01-27 03:14:07 |
I guess he was assuming you had it in a Word Document and copy-and-pasted it into here.
Speaking of which, Volt28, you could simply copy and paste his posts TO a Word document and then print it out. I just tried it out and it formatted pretty well (using Firefox at least, but I assume IE would work well too).
I think I've told you this before Wiggin but it is really a great guide. Do you plan to do the (base set) Special House cards at some point?
Also please finish water and earth. Thanks!
HolyShitt | 2010-01-27 07:16:35 |
And can you tell me the square root of 286,620?
wiggin | 2010-01-27 08:19:02 |
Hey. No I don't plan to do special house cards. I do plan to finish the basic house cards though. At some point. And thanks again. The square root is your mom.
Volt28 | 2010-01-27 10:22:49 |
I guess he was assuming you had it in a Word Document and copy-and-pasted it into here.
Speaking of which, Volt28, you could simply copy and paste his posts TO a Word document and then print it out. I just tried it out and it formatted pretty well (using Firefox at least, but I assume IE would work well too).
I think I've told you this before Wiggin but it is really a great guide. Do you plan to do the (base set) Special House cards at some point? I had thought to do that and I guess I will copy paste in to word. You are correct, I was wondering how much formatiing I would have to do if I moved it over. I also try not to do that as many who write guides and FAQs prefer their version not to be edited, etc. With my spelling and writing, I would have had to do it in worrd first and moved it to the forum. There are a couple of really good tip/stratagy type threads on the forum that the writers have put a lot of thought and effort into.
Yaksha_ | 2010-04-22 03:42:26 |
"Note that it should always be played as far to the left as possible, to
allow your creatures to deal bonus opponent damage if he kills their
blocker."
I don't get this. Why as far to the left as possible? There are no cards that affect the board depending on which side?
Floofy | 2010-04-22 04:27:46 |
example
FOREST SPRITE BIG DAMAGE DEALER
nothing 1 life character
The big damage dealer will be able to deal damage to the player
BIG DAMAGE DEALER FOREST SPRITE
1 life character
This time, the damage dealer has to kill the character first....
Kaylee | 2010-04-22 08:57:39 |
Similarly, you should place the Ice Guard as far to the right as possible. If he's on the far left and a creature kills him, any additional unblocked creatures your opponent might have will hit you for full damage. If he's on the far right, he sometimes won't be killed until after your opponent's creatures have already attacked for only half damage.
wiggin | 2010-04-22 09:08:07 |
Yeah, good point. I will be sure to include that when I finish the guide.
panderson | 2010-04-29 04:07:08 |
I wanted to ask confirmation to the Spectromasters about this : In long attritional fights F12+ damage spell > (E11=E12=De7) > other cards With damage spell I mean A8,F6,Ho6,A6,E6 etc,,, Ex: If the opponent has E11 you have to destroy it with A10 / S8 or counter it with the above cards otherwise in the long run you're going to lose Other question Ch8 = (E11=E12=De7) ? Regards Modified by panderson on 2010-04-29 07:17:50 wiggin | 2010-04-29 07:58:06 |
In long attritional fights, it's about getting resource advantage. So the cards with best resource balance are best to have. Earth 11 can be pretty good (depending on how many creatures there are on the board), but a water 11 that stays on the board for some rounds, will kick it's ass. Dragon can have very good resource balance, with the right spells.
Modified by wiggin on 2010-04-29 08:01:15 panderson | 2010-04-29 08:16:40 |
I concur, but thinking about my real question is "What creature do I have to reserve A10 or S8 for?" W11 or for Example A9 are powerful, but they can be killed by ordinary means. On the other E11,e12 and De7 are very resilient to conventional damage and F12 ... will kill you first Correct me if I'm mistaken Modified by panderson on 2010-04-29 08:59:29 wiggin | 2010-04-29 08:24:03 |
w11 and w12 can be killed by ordinary means, but you have to do it in very few rounds, otherwise you will fall too far behind in resources. Thus, unless you have another effective way, tornadoing them is good. Generally, tornado is good on any large creature with no summoning effect.
panderson | 2010-04-29 08:46:14 |
Let's ask it even better: You have A10 or S8 I have two of these : F12, E11,E12,De7,Ch8,Be7,Be8,W11,W12, Elementals I drop one For which would you wait? For which would you use your A10 and S8 immediately My answer would be to tornado (provided there are not better means) without esitation: 1) F12 ,W12 2) E11,E12, probably Be7 regards
Modified by panderson on 2010-04-29 09:53:24 garcia1000 | 2010-04-29 10:34:03 |
I would tornado Fire 12, Water 11, Earth 11, Earth 12.
I would inferno Water 12 instead of tornado panderson | 2010-04-29 11:02:39 |
I would tornado Fire 12, Water 11, Earth 11, Earth 12.
I would inferno Water 12 instead of tornado And if you don't have have F9 ? You have only a10. What would be your priority order between F12,W11,W12,E11 and E12 ? oldvet | 2010-04-29 23:06:36 |
As someone who has faced both Plynx and SeaLeta numerous times:
My opinion is that SeaLeta is the better player. Plynx was great, but in all aspects of life people who are now absent and have hyped legacies.
Wavelength | 2010-04-30 05:36:55 |
As someone who has faced both Plynx and SeaLeta numerous times:
My opinion is that SeaLeta is the better player. Plynx was great, but in all aspects of life people who are now absent and have hyped legacies. That's nice. Right now your opinion doesn't mean anything since we don't even know who you are. I was a level 6-8 player for a long time. After two consecutive nights of playing Plynx a bunch of times in a row and discussing what was happening each game, I went on a hot streak and hit level 13 within a few days. I can't call that coincidence. That's nothing against SeaLeta; I don't have any way to know who's better. I'm just saying Plynx was incredible and it's idiotic to try to downplay his legacy as "hype". The guy was the real deal and he changed how we played the game. I think Wiggin's getting to that point too.
Modified by Wavelength on 2010-04-30 05:39:24 oldvet | 2010-04-30 06:18:03 |
... That's nice. Right now your opinion doesn't mean anything since we don't even know who you are.
I was a level 6-8 player for a long time. After two consecutive nights of playing Plynx a bunch of times in a row and discussing what was happening each game, I went on a hot streak and hit level 13 within a few days. I can't call that coincidence.
That's nothing against SeaLeta; I don't have any way to know who's better. I'm just saying Plynx was incredible and it's idiotic to try to downplay his legacy as "hype". The guy was the real deal and he changed how we played the game. I think Wiggin's getting to that point too.
my opinion mattered enough for you to respond. don't need to bother logging in here to voice an opinion regardless. when games are new there does tend to be people who stand out. In my experience when those players tend to return, they aren't nearly as good as the hype surrounding them suggested. It's kinda like Nirvana; if Cobain never died we wouldn't have to hear their songs so often on the radio. I'm sure if Plynx returned he'd be a top 10 player, but not the top.
wiggin | 2010-04-30 08:12:59 |
I disagree.
Nirvana was awesome. garcia1000 | 2010-04-30 08:49:08 |
Nirvana is awesome.
wiggin | 2010-04-30 09:22:44 |
Isn't it actually "Nirvana are awesome". I don't know what's up with my grammar today.
Wavelength | 2010-04-30 14:35:49 |
my opinion mattered enough for you to respond. don't need to bother logging in here to voice an opinion regardless.
I knew your opinion might be worth something based on how well you understood the game, but "oldvet" isn't someone who has proven any understanding of the game. If you logged in as a good player (or at least one who has shown understanding of the game on the forums) your opinion would hold some weight. As it is, you don't even have the fortitude to show us your online identity as you spout your opinions on topics that only an expert (and even then not all experts) could fairly speak to. ...Unless you ARE Plynx, in which case what you're doing right here is freaking awesome.
Modified by Wavelength on 2010-04-30 14:36:23 oldvet | 2010-05-01 21:56:28 |
Isn't it actually "Nirvana are awesome". I don't know what's up with my grammar today. My point exactly; if they were still around you'd likely be saying "Nirvana was awesome". Better to burn out than to fade away. Disappear when you're the best and don't return when you no longer will be. Wavelength | 2010-05-02 03:38:32 |
For all you know Plynx might have died so it's pretty callous to imply that he left without telling anyone in order to cement his legendary status.
wiggin | 2010-05-02 08:00:40 |
For all you know Plynx might have died so it's pretty callous to imply that he left without telling anyone in order to cement his legendary status. But was it suicide, or did Courtney Love play a role in it... oldvet | 2010-05-02 11:24:18 |
For all you know Plynx might have died so it's pretty callous to imply that he left without telling anyone in order to cement his legendary status. Haha. That's not what I'm trying to imply. You sure are a Plynx nuthugger. At least wiggin has a good sense of humor.
Wavelength | 2010-05-02 14:44:56 |
You sure are a Plynx nuthugger.
I'm sticking up for someone I consider a friend. Maybe you'll understand what that sentence means when you grow a pair someday. Or maybe you'll never grow a pair, and you'll keep hiding behind an unregistered account that says "oldvet" (LOL!) when everyone knows you're an adolescent newbie pretending that you once played with the big boys.
oldvet | 2010-05-04 01:36:01 |
... I'm sticking up for someone I consider a friend.
Maybe you'll understand what that sentence means when you grow a pair someday.
Or maybe you'll never grow a pair, and you'll keep hiding behind an unregistered account that says "oldvet" (LOL!) when everyone knows you're an adolescent newbie pretending that you once played with the big boys.
Wow, it's always interesting to see the reactions of someone so emotionally vested in a game. There is no hiding here; I simply do not care to create a login. By your logic, why are you using an Alias instead of your full real life name? Hiding? Give me a break. Anyways, I think SeaLeta is better and you do not. Simply agree to disagree instead of doing Plynx a disservice by defending him in such an immature manner.
wiggin | 2010-05-04 08:25:38 |
If this is going to go on, can you do it in another thread pls.
Wavelength | 2010-05-05 00:08:30 |
You sure are a Plynx nuthugger.
... doing Plynx a disservice by defending him in such an immature manner.
I don't know what jockocracy you grew up in, but where I come from you don't get to call someone a "nuthugger" and then get off on pretending that you're being the mature one. There is no hiding here; I simply do not care to create a login. By your logic, why are you using an Alias instead of your full real life name? Hiding? Give me a break.
Anyways, I think SeaLeta is better and you do not. Simply agree to disagree... Fine, why don't you just TELL everyone what your in-game name is, then. It's not that I think "anyone who doesn't have a login name is a loser" or anything like that. It's the fact that you made an assertion, without any facts to back it up. If you could elucidate SeaLeta's style of play and Plynx's style of play, and the gambits they both like to make, and explain why SeaLeta's would win most of the time, you'd have some credence behind your argument. If you showed us who you were in-game, and it turns out you're a good player who's been around a while, and who understands the game well, then it would be worth listening to who you think is the better player. If Wiggin or Kaylee or Final or Cleo or Eric (or one of Eric's million alts) said that SeaLeta is better than Plynx, that would mean something. If you're going to remain anonymous and just spout out ridiculous statements like "SeaLeta is better because Plynx is remembered in the same overrated way as Nirvana", then you're going to out yourself as a troll. I'm not going to agree to disagree with a troll. So, I hope you prove you're not a troll, and back up the (so far) groundless assertions that you've made. innocent bystander | 2010-05-05 03:05:37 |
god who cares
this thread is for wiggins strat guide.. not arguing over who is the best
oldvet | 2010-05-07 02:24:55 |
@Wavelength Sorry, but I stopped reading at "jockocracy". Hope your essay was purging.
Let's get back to discussion of the guide...
@Wiggins I disagree with giving Dragon variable ratings, since many of the 'cards' rely on what else you or your opponent have. As you continue to chip away at the guide, it seems like the best bet is to rate in each category based on the average in your experience.
wiggin | 2010-05-07 11:36:20 |
Dragon is the only card in the basic houses that I would play (almost) solely if I have specific other cards. Other cards also have synergy, but never to such an exclusive degree.
Wavelength | 2010-05-07 15:32:38 |
@Wavelength Sorry, but I stopped reading at "jockocracy". Hope your essay was purging.
Oh hahaha you're a funny guy! Nice tactic! I wonder if anyone actually believes you stopped reading there. I sure don't. Keep hiding behind your anonymity, okay? Dragon is the only card in the basic houses that I would play (almost) solely if I have specific other cards. Other cards also have synergy, but never to such an exclusive degree. I'm really curious here, Wiggin, because Dragon has always seemed like such an absurdly powerful card to me (and I admit I may well be overrating it) - what situations do you NOT like to play Dragon under? Or what cards being missing would cause you to not play it? Chain Lightning, Natural Fury, Lightning Bolt, most Special spells, and even Call to Thunder make it well worth its cost in most of my games. Even stand-alone, without spells, at 9/42 it might be the best thing I can do with my Fire mana in some games. wiggin | 2010-05-07 18:21:20 |
I'm really curious here, Wiggin, because Dragon has always seemed like such an absurdly powerful card to me (and I admit I may well be overrating it) - what situations do you NOT like to play Dragon under? Or what cards being missing would cause you to not play it?
Chain Lightning, Natural Fury, Lightning Bolt, most Special spells, and even Call to Thunder make it well worth its cost in most of my games. Even stand-alone, without spells, at 9/42 it might be the best thing I can do with my Fire mana in some games. Let's compare with Titan, a balanced card. It has similar stats to Dragon, and deals 15 immediate damage. So for Dragon to be as strong as Titan, it should deal at least 15 additional damage. With a mass destruction spell, such as Chain Lightning, that is easy. But if you don't have any of those, it's different. You would have to cast 3+ Call to Thunder before Dragon would be equally good as Titan. If we suppose you don't have a single spell you want to play, it would be a card far, far weaker than titan. And it is preferable to avoid getting in a situation where your best use of a house, is a weak card. Modified by wiggin on 2010-05-07 18:29:41 oldvet | 2010-05-07 19:01:38 |
@Wavelength Like I said, we are all anonymous/aliased on here. Can you grow up and stop obsessing over me (here and on other threads)? Agree to disagree and move on. Dragon is the only card in the basic houses that I would play (almost) solely if I have specific other cards. Other cards also have synergy, but never to such an exclusive degree. @Wiggins But there are cards that you would or would not play (almost) solely if your opponent has or does not use specific other cards, no? IE Tornado's speed varies depending on what creature it's clearing a path for and its resource balance varies depending on what your opponent plays. wiggin | 2010-05-07 19:44:11 |
Yes, but there's a difference between a value depending on the opponents cards, and depending on your own cards. You know your own cards from the beginning.
oldvet | 2010-05-07 22:20:32 |
Yes, but there's a difference between a value depending on the opponents cards, and depending on your own cards. You know your own cards from the beginning. Well, in the least Tornado's speed and board presence ratings do rely on your own cards - they should be variable or N/A.
wiggin | 2010-05-08 08:02:54 |
... Well, in the least Tornado's speed and board presence ratings do rely on your own cards - they should be variable or N/A.
All cards' stats depend to some degree, but nowhere near those of Dragon. Wavelength | 2010-05-11 14:20:33 |
Let's compare with Titan, a balanced card. It has similar stats to Dragon, and deals 15 immediate damage. So for Dragon to be as strong as Titan, it should deal at least 15 additional damage. With a mass destruction spell, such as Chain Lightning, that is easy. But if you don't have any of those, it's different. You would have to cast 3+ Call to Thunder before Dragon would be equally good as Titan.
If we suppose you don't have a single spell you want to play, it would be a card far, far weaker than titan. And it is preferable to avoid getting in a situation where your best use of a house, is a weak card. Well, that's a good way to do the analysis, no question about that. But, I think you might be missing how powerful Dragon can be. Titan does 15 creature damage. Dragon does 3 extra creature damage with Call to Thunder, plus 3 extra direct damage. If that 3 extra damage kills a creature, that might mean 3-9 more direct damage as well, or some other bonus. And then you have situations where Dragon is even better than with Chain Lightning, like Cannonade, Blood Ritual, Mana Burn, Sonic Boom, and Lightning Cloud + Poisonous Cloud. Yes, this IS an argument in favor of saying that Dragon's value is highly deck-dependent. But, except for the 5% of hands where you get completely spell-screwed, he's going to be better than Titan, and his value ranges from Very Good to Incredible.
wiggin | 2010-05-11 14:59:05 |
... Well, that's a good way to do the analysis, no question about that. But, I think you might be missing how powerful Dragon can be.
Titan does 15 creature damage. Dragon does 3 extra creature damage with Call to Thunder, plus 3 extra direct damage. If that 3 extra damage kills a creature, that might mean 3-9 more direct damage as well, or some other bonus.
And then you have situations where Dragon is even better than with Chain Lightning, like Cannonade, Blood Ritual, Mana Burn, Sonic Boom, and Lightning Cloud + Poisonous Cloud. Yes, this IS an argument in favor of saying that Dragon's value is highly deck-dependent. But, except for the 5% of hands where you get completely spell-screwed, he's going to be better than Titan, and his value ranges from Very Good to Incredible.
This sounds like we agree fully? Dragon can, and often will, go to excellent in both Board Presence and Resource Balance, while Titan is fixed at medium and high. And yeah, the low rating in resource balance only happens occasionally.
Modified by wiggin on 2010-05-11 14:59:55 wiggin | 2011-11-22 12:39:01 |
All houses finished now.
Deathfkpt | 2011-11-22 13:41:04 |
Wiggin ! please add your specific cards on new class !
Wavelength | 2011-11-22 15:59:13 |
Nice job finishing this up, I enjoyed the read.
dincay | 2011-11-23 17:24:34 |
Wiggin ! please add your specific cards on new class ! I agree with Deathfkpt :)
Great guide by the way. But my winrates (in campaign) dropped after reading it :) Probably I remember some points while forgetting most improtant ones :)
Anyway I feel the guide will be more meaningful as I advance in game.
Wavelength | 2011-11-23 20:30:50 |
Great guide by the way. But my winrates (in campaign) dropped after reading it :) Probably I remember some points while forgetting most improtant ones :)Anyway I feel the guide will be more meaningful as I advance in game. I imagine this guide is meant for multiplayer play, where you don't have to deal with gamebreaking twists and you know your opponent doesn't have a card if you have that same card.
robvalue | 2012-09-07 10:41:31 |
Thank you very much for this guide :) I've read it all carefully and picked up lots of useful tips.
FORESTRY | 2012-12-21 08:10:55 |
I was thinking of making a "Card Roles" post, but this is a pretty good post!
FORESTRY | 2014-03-07 07:51:28 |
Oh Wiggins, long i have thought that "speed" factor was retarded, but how wrong was i... i had to get to this level to truly understand it.
Hi. New player to spectromancer demo, played ~100 games vs archmage until I get 60% winrate and can give my thoughts on cards. Note demo rules: - player is always p1, and must play warrior priest - many cards out of date, eg. troll dies to stone rain - no bans i can tell. one game i am shouting at my monitor for AI playing Earth 2 on Water 11 because it is banned, next game I put Water 12 opposite Earth 11 and spam Earth 2 until win - after all, he did it to me
I want to share my thoughts since it seems to differ from players here, and maybe you know something I don't.
Fire 1:
Okay card. Good stats for cost, and usually you can play so drawback isn't very relevant. Terrible opening play since opponent can play mana generator at weak spot (diagonal from it), and bad card when drawback is relevant, but otherwise good for hunting down mana gen, or chump blocking.
Fire 2:
Good value for cost when opponent has big board. 2 mana for 5 AOE + chump block (8ish hp save) is excellent - problem is when opponent has big board, maybe too low impact. Can also be used like Air 3 to finish off creatures - but if played across empty, you give weak spot for dangerous creature like Earth 5, Air 9, etc.
Fire 3:
Excellent opener, my favorite of 3. Lowest cost, good stats, will make itself mana back.
Fire 4:
Piece of shit. It can finish off creature, but rather have Fire 2. It can hunt down early Earth 5, but even then much worse than Fire 1. Never happy to see this card, I consider it dead card 90% of games.
Fire 5:
Okay, especially if the 2 attack kills something, or is buffing AoE creature like Earth 3 (banned, I know, but is in demo). Low HP though. Not worth it if effect is not very good.
Fire 6:
It's fine AoE. Common opener is I open Fire 3/Water 5, AI plays Earth 5 somewhere away, I block it with 4 attack creature, then they block my mana gen, and I play Fire Wave. It feels like an even-ish trade. Also fine mid-game play when both people have full-ish boards, good value for cost then, but Inferno is often better.
Fire 7: Similar to Fire 5, but bigger. It has improved stats so it can contest creatures like Water 5 reasonably, and does not die to inferno. I think it is a bit better than Fire 5.
Fire 8: It sometimes is okay for blocking early Earth 5 / Air 9, or when 4 damage kills things. However, in just about every way it is worse than Fire 10. Not too happy to have this.
Fire 9: 9 mana is a lot so you have to plan a bit to get this, but the effect is always good, will kill at least 2 creatures. Very useful.
Fire 10: All the elementals are strong, giving good resources and stats. If it stays on field long, it grows and grows until your opponent has to kill it, then you have mana you can use again! With the 3 AoE this can give good board presence, but often it is worth playing on turn 3 (with Water 3) even if it does not hit much.
Fire 11: Excellent card. It can be used like Air 6 for finisher, but it can also be used like Earth 9 to clear (and comes with 20 free face damage). It does a bit less damage, but this can be to your advantage - 19 damage will not kill your turtle. If opponent has turtle, just wait until you hit 13 mana for 21 damage - problem solved :)
Fire 12: Can be strong if you have spells set up to play after this. However, this requires a lot of mana set up (12 fire, + whatever spell you want to play) and card draw luck. And then, once you go through all the effort to set it up, is weak to tornado. I don't like it much, would rather be dealt something like Fire 10 / Earth 12 which is good even without setup.
Water 1: When it is good, it is good, and often I wish I have it. However, must be careful. Water 1 -> Water 1 -> Water 1 -> Earth 9 is a TRAP, opponent can just play high HP creature and you are SOL. However, good to play if you want to be reactive (your deck has lots of cards like Troll and you want opponent to play to empty slot first.) or to set up high throughput lines a turn faster. eg. Water 5 -> Water 1 -> Air 11 -> Water 1 -> Fire 10 -> Earth 11 can be very strong. You should not play two in a row, and should not plan to do so. Skip 1 turn to play big card 1 turn early is good - skip 2 turn to play big card 2 turn early gives up too much board. eg. Earth 1 -> Earth 1 -> Water 1 -> Fire 10 is better than Water 1 -> Water 1 -> Fire 10.
Water 2: Terrible card. Okay as early play to kill mana generator, but even then not great (only 5 attack means they still get mana for 3 turns). Also, 2 mana -> 22 hp is very good ratio, can be good chump blocker for big creature. Other than that, drawback very steep.
Water 3: Can be nice. It lets you convert water mana to fire mana, and let you play big card 2 turn early. Great for turn 3 fire elemental, maybe dragon with support, or to set up armageddon midgame if your board looks like it will die next turn.
Water 4: Terrible body for cost, but effect is very good with Spirit 4 and decent with Earth 9. Also, hedge vs opponent sweeper. (but weak to air 9). This body is not for trading - if you play it, you should plan to keep it alive a few turns.
Water 5: Worst mana generator. It is least efficient, but that is the trade for ramping a different house, letting you play big cards faster. But often not worth it, and depends on what you have to ramp to, and your houses. (eg. start with 6 water 4 air, and have Water 10, best not to play this) In this case, instead of playing turn 1 mana generator, I like open Earth 1 (or Earth 3 vs golem)
Water 6: This is okay, like water 4, not for trading. If your opponent has 10 unblocked attack, this is 8 hp swing per turn. Unlike other healing (Earth 4), you must play this preemptively before you are reduced to single digit hp. Also, 20 hp is poor body, fairly easy to contest with creature. Hoiwever, killing this with combat damage takes time, so is still okay card.
Water 7:
Excellent card, much better for p2. Play this blocking a creature with near 5 attack and watch the value come in. Very annoying to answer - odes not die to Fire 9, and cannot be easily finished off at low health with Fire 2 / Air 3. Also laughs at Earth 3 / Air 9 / Earth 12.
Water 8:
Very efficient board clear due to mana burn. Consider this: p1 Fire 3 p2 Mech 0 p1 Fire 3 p2 Water 8
This is huge mana advantage for p2. Heck, in this case often p1 has no reasonable play for turn 2, if they have Water 1 they are happy, if not their best bet is likely Water 4 if they have that, and even then p2 can just change plan to Mech 4 Water 10
Water 9: Great with Air 9 / Earth 12. Okay efficiency. Often the reason you play it is you look and see you have Water 11 / Water 12 and can tell they will not be good this game, so this is the next best thing. I still prefer Water 10 usually.
Water 10: Is elemental. Is good.
Water 11: Can run away with the game if left unanswered, but has low HP. Weak to Tornado, but otherwise still weak to stuff like Air 12, unless you have Earth 2. Do not play to block and save hp (unless vs weak spot, like Earth 1). If you feel like you might die, the correct way to play this is to have instead played Water 9 two turns earlier.
Water 12: I read the forum, this card gets a lot of flak. I do not get it, I think its much better than Water 11 (which is admittedly not great). The lower attack is not relevant, since you do not block with this, nor do you play this to pressure life. Also not so weak to Tornado, as this is positive mana trade for you. The effect is better too, 1v0 mana beats 2v1 mana, and you get to tax your opponent +1 turn. Main weakness is Inferno, due to lower HP. Watch out for that before playing.
HeadphonesGirl | 2022-01-29 10:48:00 |
I want to share my thoughts since it seems to differ from players here, and maybe you know something I don't.
The main reason your thoughts will differ is that playing against the archmage is fundamentally different from playing against human opponents, which is how most people are evaluating the cards. The archmage AI is quite good, but it doesn't play like a human and the best human players are much stronger than it is.
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